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Smoke a Joint and Lose Your Mind (not in a good way)
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koeeoaddi there



Joined: 29 Jun 2007

Posts: 99
Location: over in the old golden land

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:23 am    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Justsomedude wrote:
Some good discussion all around. Sorry again Susan but,

Quote:
If you never try pot, the chances are higher that you will not try harder drugs.


I just believe that if you are genetically predisposed to be an addict of any kind, the hard stuff will find you. No scapegoat needed.


i concur!
pot is a "gateway" drug in that its the easiest to find.
chances of scoring some acid or whatever before pot crosses your path is pretty slim.
i know if i had come across acid before smoking pot i would have had acid first. just so happens that i had had pot before because it so common.
it didnt lead me to take acid at all. er...not that i ever had dabbled in either of course.

and keep in mind that this increase in schizophrenia due to pot amounts to something like only another 800 cases in the uk per year.
in the grand scheme of things thats hardly worth all this hoo-ha when, as mentioned above, alcohol and tobacco fuck up way more lives.
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Evenreven



Joined: 10 Jul 2007

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Location: Fogtown, Northern Europe

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:40 am    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Bubba Ho-Tep wrote:
Plus, I don't fancy sharing the bar with an 18 year old. Take that Magic "The Gathering" shit out of here! We're watching football!


Laughing Laughing
Good post, Bubba. I think the drunk driving part is a red herring, though. Who really dutifully waits until they're 21 before tasting alcohol anyway? There is only one way to less drunk driving, imo, and that's the combo of tests out on the road, and really high fines.

(For the record, both driving and drinking age is 18 where I live. I always thought 16 was a bit low, but what do I know, I don't even have a driver's licence!)
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cubist



Joined: 29 Jun 2007

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Location: merrie england

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:49 am    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

All drugs should be decriminalised - its the only way to kill the black market. Unadulterated smack is relatively harmless compared to the stuff on the street. They did an experiment in Holland a few years back in which junkies could go to the chemist and get their hit. Result was that the junkies functioned as any other normal person in society.

Drugs don't kill - the black market kills. I realise its not as black & white as that but its about time governments realised - after decade upon decade of failed drug legislation - that people WILL use drugs no matter what the President or the Daily Mail may say. Humans have been chucking drugs down their necks since the year dot and no governmnt will ever succeed in stopping it. Therefore legalise them so your 15 year old is buying their pot from the tobacconist and not some professional criminal.

Legalise and educate & then allow people to make a choice. It's the only way. It always has been the only way. All criminalisation does is give it a sheen of glamour.
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hrtshpdbox



Joined: 28 Jun 2007

Posts: 228


PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:08 am    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

The Grand Fromage wrote:
hrtshpdbox wrote:
Take...potato chips. I think it would be a cinch to clearly demonstrate that potato chips are more harmful to a human being than pot.


With the greatest of no respect, that's the biggest sentence of bollocks I've ever read on here...


Gosh, I think I see greater nonsense than that on this board several times a day. Anyway, it's not nonsense at all - obesity, fat clogging the arteries, the whole bit; potato chips can certainly be portrayed as more dangerous than pot. My point is if you take any substance and look at it in a certaint light, you can build up a giant wall of worry about it. Going the other way, while links between pot and mental disease are mostly speculative, pot can just as easily be cast in a positive light that highlights its medicinal values for people with glaucoma, high blood pressure, etc. And, for folks not afflicted with those ills, as a harmless relaxant (which is, in essence, precisely what it is). When it comes to pot, there's no question in my mind that the War On Drugs is far more harmful than the drug itself.
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LostArt



Joined: 27 Jun 2007

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:49 am    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Susan wrote:

Except that alcohol was legal and then the government made it illegal. Pot is not legal, never has been...and that is a different kettle of fish.


That's not correct.

During the first few decades of the 1900s, the United States struggled with moral intolerance and social opinion that set the stage for Prohibition. In 1915, Utah was the first state to make marijuana use illegal. Some sources report this was the direct result of some members of the Mormon church using the drug.

The establishment of the Food and Drug Administration in 1906 was the first time a government agency was to be put in charge of regulating drugs.

The Federal Bureau of Narcotics was formed in 1930 under the direction of Henry Anslinger. Anslinger’s name has become nearly synonymous with racism, aggressive morality and deceit. Nearly every account of marijuana’s fall from favor indicates the early drive to control the drug’s use came under the direction of a number of influential sources at the time, including Anslinger, William Randolph Hearst and Lammont DuPont. DuPonts new company was pioneering synthetic fibers. This new invention would draw direct competition from the hemp growing business.

In 1937, with the enactment of the Marijuana Tax Act, marijuana, or cannabis was officially made illegal on the federal level within the United States.
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Don



Joined: 12 Jul 2007

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:39 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

The prisons are full of pot smokers. We need to decriminalize pot and stop jailing people for possessing or selling small amounts in the absence of possessing or selling harder drugs at the same time. I should add that stiff penalties should still be involved for adults selling to minors.

Also, by decrimalizing, you drop the price and minimize or remove the incentive for professional drug gangsters to bother with the weed.

That said, frequent pot use does have its ill effects on many people, in a way similar to frequent or excessive alcohol abuse. By that I mean poor job or school performance, driving while impaired, social impairment, and health problems. Notice that chronic cough that regular pot smokers have.
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Bubba Ho-Tep



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:52 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

I don't know about gateway, but when I reunited with my high school metal band mates 10 years after we graduated, I was saddened to see that they were no longer merely messing around with grass and acid. They were using the hard stuff, the stuff that can kill you. I stood aside and didn't participate in anything, although there was probably a mean buzz going on in the room. They had all kinds of stuff. Even opium. And they kept ingesting over and over again for like 4 hours. My guitar player friend was drenched in sweat, all coked up.
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Susan



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:54 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Quote:
In 1937, with the enactment of the Marijuana Tax Act, marijuana, or cannabis was officially made illegal on the federal level within the United States.


I stand corrected. Thank you.
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Jeff Mason



Joined: 27 Jun 2007

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:27 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Heck, cocaine and heroin used to be legal too. The "Coke" jokes about soft drinks are real.

You want a culture shock? Watch "Easy Street" with Charlie Chaplin. Or "Mystery of the Leaping Fish" with Douglas Fairbanks. I think that both are from around 1917 give or take a year (at work, can't check dates). Both of them feature drug humor that would never fly today. In fact, the climax of "Easy Street" features Chaplin as police officer cleaning up the neighborhood at the climax of crooks -- after sitting on a junkie's syringe and getting shot up with dope and going nuts.
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Bubba Ho-Tep



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:37 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

The moral of the story is to get high on life.
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koeeoaddi there



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:44 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Jeff Mason wrote:
Heck, cocaine and heroin used to be legal too. The "Coke" jokes about soft drinks are real.

You want a culture shock? Watch "Easy Street" with Charlie Chaplin. Or "Mystery of the Leaping Fish" with Douglas Fairbanks. I think that both are from around 1917 give or take a year (at work, can't check dates). Both of them feature drug humor that would never fly today. In fact, the climax of "Easy Street" features Chaplin as police officer cleaning up the neighborhood at the climax of crooks -- after sitting on a junkie's syringe and getting shot up with dope and going nuts.


i really thought that the next words would read "up the arse".
ah well.
they missed a trick there.
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IndoorFireworkDisplay



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:39 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Joel5000 wrote:
Jeff Mason wrote:
One comment --

The parallel between pot and alcohol is intuitive and accurate. I do see an inconsistency in legality there. And we know emperically that banning alcohol doesn't work courtesy of the 20's/30's. Therefore, our best bet is education. Legalities aside, the article that Joel posted is kind of important in giving people the full scope of the issue to make an informed choice.

I am an adopted child. My birthmother died of alcohol-related issues. I fear that I would have that genetic dispensation toward alcoholism and so I have declined to drink. I made that decision based upon information at my disposal. Underage people aren't in a position to be that responsible, but adults can be. I would not have an issue with legalized pot, so long as information like this is available and not ridiculed.


I strongly agree that pot and alcohol are very dangerous when used by younger people. That is another argument for legalization. When I was in high school it was a lot easier to get pot than alcohol or tobacco. That is because there was an entire black market for pot already set-up and operating. No carding involved. We generally had to rely on older siblings, co-workers, etc to get beer, and we often couldn't get it. Of course, once we all got fake ids it wasn't as much of a problem, but thats another issue entirely. My point is that I think pot would be LESS accessible to youth if it were legalized and properly regulated.



I take it the legal drinking age in most US states is still 21? Here it's 18, but unlike in the States - at least according to most Americans I've met - getting booze underage is a piece of piss (no pun intended). Even in the small, bourgeois village where I grew up, there was an off-licence run by an alcoholic Welsh woman who used to sell us beer at age 12. On the other hand, weed - at least at that time - was relatively difficult for teenagers to procure outside of big cities.

I used to enjoy getting stoned, but for somme reason the older I get the less I enjoy it as the paranoia seems to get worse. Maybe this is just the result of having to deal with the responsibilities of the adult world (eg work, paying a mortgage, raising children if you have them) which isn't quite so easy to do when you're caning it on a regular basis.
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