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Harry Potter 7 review thread- SPOILER
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IanWagner



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:01 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Agree with Jeff completely on The Dark Tower ending. I think that car that hit him knocked the sense right out of him.
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andy rooney



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:13 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Jeff Mason wrote:
Should I expect every book I read to suck and be pleasantly surprised when it doesn't? I can tell you I won't read 7 books in one series if the series isn't pretty good from the beginning. But King raised the quality bar high early and fell short late. If that is "having expectations," to expect a great opening to continue great, then sorry, I WILL have them.


no no. i'm talkin about not expecting anything. so no, you shouldn't expect every book you read to suck and be pleasantly surprised when it doesn't. i try never to say the "sh" word, personally.

the reason you didn't like the ending of DT is because you expected a better ending. it was expectation that caused the ruin, due to it not being met. it wasn't the ending of the book which caused the ruin, as the ending was just fine to some people. the ending was not fine to you because you expected better. now, had you not expected better, the ending would have been just fine to you as well.
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andy rooney



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:17 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

IanWagner wrote:
Agree with Jeff completely on The Dark Tower ending. I think that car that hit him knocked the sense right out of him.


that car got him writing the story again. perhaps the only better ending for DT would have been if the car had killed king and the story had been left unfinished.

i'm pretty sure i would have found that much more dissatisfying than the ending given.
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halleluwah



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:22 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

andy rooney wrote:
Jeff Mason wrote:
Should I expect every book I read to suck and be pleasantly surprised when it doesn't? I can tell you I won't read 7 books in one series if the series isn't pretty good from the beginning. But King raised the quality bar high early and fell short late. If that is "having expectations," to expect a great opening to continue great, then sorry, I WILL have them.


no no. i'm talkin about not expecting anything. so no, you shouldn't expect every book you read to suck and be pleasantly surprised when it doesn't. i try never to say the "sh" word, personally.

the reason you didn't like the ending of DT is because you expected a better ending. it was expectation that caused the ruin, due to it not being met. it wasn't the ending of the book which caused the ruin, as the ending was just fine to some people. the ending was not fine to you because you expected better. now, had you not expected better, the ending would have been just fine to you as well.
Riiiiiiiiight.

So is "Down In the Groove" actually a really good album, and it's just panned because people were expecting better from Dylan? Or is it just a bad album?

As my guru and yours, Huey Lewis, would say, sometimes bad is bad.
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andy rooney



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:42 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

halleluwah wrote:
So is "Down In the Groove" actually a really good album, and it's just panned because people were expecting better from Dylan? Or is it just a bad album?

As my guru and yours, Huey Lewis, would say, sometimes bad is bad.


when some things are good, other things become bad. -lao lewis

"down in the groove" is a bad album to you if you expected it to be good and it wasn't.

"down in the groove" is a good album to you if you expected it to be good and it was.

if you didn't expect "down in the groove" to be good, there would be no way for it to be bad. it would just be what it is.

and "down in the groove" is just fiiine, baby Very Happy
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IanWagner



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:59 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Philosophy 101 is now closed for the evening.
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andy rooney



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:04 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

understood. wrong thread for that jazz anyways. my bad.
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IanWagner



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:05 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Nah, just kidding. S'all good.
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andy rooney



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:07 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

nah, derailing the potter thread was bogus. i'll start up a philosophy 101 thread that'll be easier to ignore! Cool

not.
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there are sixteen cans of coffee here; together they hold a total of thirteen and a half pounds of coffee. doesn't that seem like cheating? -andy rooney
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halleluwah



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:16 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

andy rooney wrote:
halleluwah wrote:
So is "Down In the Groove" actually a really good album, and it's just panned because people were expecting better from Dylan? Or is it just a bad album?

As my guru and yours, Huey Lewis, would say, sometimes bad is bad.


when some things are good, other things become bad. -lao lewis

"down in the groove" is a bad album to you if you expected it to be good and it wasn't.

"down in the groove" is a good album to you if you expected it to be good and it was.

if you didn't expect "down in the groove" to be good, there would be no way for it to be bad. it would just be what it is.

and "down in the groove" is just fiiine, baby Very Happy
I just don't buy this argument that the quality of an artwork (or anything, for that matter) is entirely relative to the expectations of the person experiencing it. For one thing, if your argument that it is impossible for something to be bad if you go into the experience with no expectations is true, than by extension, it would also be impossible for something to be GOOD. It would just be what it is, right? So in this perfect scenario you have in your head, in which nobody expects anything, and therefore is never disappointed, nobody would ever be pleased with anything either, because nothing could EXCEED expectations either.

In other words, we'd all be nothing more than machines, incapable of experiencing either pleasure or disappointment with a situation; incapable of doing anything in this world other than merely observing. And if that is the case, what is the point of creating or absorbing art in the first place? In that event, you, me, or anybody else could simply just blandly live in this world, observing it exactly as it is without likes or dislikes, because liking or disliking something would naturally just be a symptom of harboring undue prejudices, right?

That may be your idea of utopia, but it sure isn't mine.

The idea that there is no such thing as good and bad; they only exist relative to our own expectations, is ludicrous to me. If we all trained ourselves to believe that murder is okay, is it suddenly a good thing? Bullshit. It's a bad thing, no matter how you slice it; no matter what your own personal ideals are.

Back to art, I have heard plenty of albums in my day, and I have read plenty of books, and a great deal of them were first experienced with no prior knowledge of the artist who made them, no prejudices, and no expectations one way or another. They were just albums. And you know what? Some of them I liked and some of them I didn't. How can that be? I didn't expect them to be either good or bad; they were blank slates for me before having heard/read them. By your reasoning, such a situation would make a perception of goodness or badness impossible. But it still happened, and it continues to happen. You know why? Because I'm a human being, and because that's why art is there. Why would society even bother HAVING art in the first place if everything was neutral? It's human nature; to suggest that we should experience art differently would be to ignore this.

If you go though life with absolutely no expectations, no hopes for the quality of anything (not that this is possible to do as a human being, but maintain your delusion if you must), then you must lead a really dull life.
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Last edited by halleluwah on Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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halleluwah



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:17 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

IanWagner wrote:
Philosophy 101 is now closed for the evening.
Aw shit. Sorry, man. That post took me a while to write....
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IanWagner



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:25 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

No, you did an awesome job there. I agree with every word. You fulfilled my expectations! Very Happy
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andy rooney



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:45 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

halleluwah wrote:
That may be your idea of utopia, but it sure isn't mine.


that's fine, man, everything's fine....but i wasn't talking about any utopia. if there's a utopia, then there's a non-utopia. if there's just the here and now, then there's no where to go. and if there's nowhere to be but here, then there's no point in not digging everything. i never want to not dig something. that means i willingly wasted my own time.

yours was a good post. now back to harry potter!
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alan



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:57 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

And can folks avoid actually spelling out the end to Dark Tower as i think i am going to start on them. Or at least say DARK TOWER SPOILER in big letters- we have all finished the Potter so that one is safe!

And Down In The Groove isn't that bad - its better than Under the Red Sky and the one with the carole bayer sager song anyway! (Knocked Out Loaded).
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IanWagner



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:25 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

alan wrote:
And can folks avoid actually spelling out the end to Dark Tower as i think i am going to start on them. Or at least say DARK TOWER SPOILER in big letters- we have all finished the Potter so that one is safe!

And Down In The Groove isn't that bad - its better than Under the Red Sky and the one with the carole bayer sager song anyway! (Knocked Out Loaded).


EVERYONE dies, dude!
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