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Harry Potter 7 review thread- SPOILER
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alan



Joined: 27 Jun 2007

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:26 am    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Ok - just finished after a marathon 4 hour dash through the last half of the book and - very happy with the way it resolved. No major deaths after all (main three), a big battle and a happy ending - AND a look at the adult characters which rang true. No copping out of Dumbledore's death and redemption for Snape.

Not in the least bothered either way if someone wants to find any sort of metaphor there, I just enjoyed the story through to the conclusion.
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Susan



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:22 am    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Well, but there IS redemption for Snape. He really WAS a good guy. It's Pancho and Lefty, Dumbledore and Snape.

Pancho needs yer prayers, it's true, but save a few for Lefty, too. He just did what he had to do, and now he's growin' old...

In fact, i really like the way she gave Snape his redemption. He never changes his mind and starts liking Harry...just as he never liked James. But because he loves Lily he will do what he has to do.

I thought Harry and Ginny naming their kid Albus Severus was a little much, however...
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Jeff Mason



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:32 am    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

And it was a believable motive, and one tied intimately to the whole event that kicked off the series (the death of Harry's parents).

I just have such a contrast with this ending and the ending of the Dark Tower which left me wanting to burn the books. Stephen King was making it up as he went and that killed the series in the end for me; meanwhile, Rowling had to have this all planned out in book one for it to make this much sense. Surely the ending of Book 2 had to have the horcurxes all planned out to make it work. It makes me respect the achievement all the more.
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Susan



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:24 am    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

I feel like i need to go back to book one and read the whole thing straight through now.

But....when??? Where is the time???
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alan



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:10 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Jeff Mason wrote:
And it was a believable motive, and one tied intimately to the whole event that kicked off the series (the death of Harry's parents).

I just have such a contrast with this ending and the ending of the Dark Tower which left me wanting to burn the books. Stephen King was making it up as he went and that killed the series in the end for me; meanwhile, Rowling had to have this all planned out in book one for it to make this much sense. Surely the ending of Book 2 had to have the horcurxes all planned out to make it work. It makes me respect the achievement all the more.


I was seriously thinking of starting the Bark Tower books from scratch now, but I suspect that the ending might disappoint me from what you have said here and before - on the other hand its a bit of a waste of money if I don't read the buggers!

It was a very well thought out ending though, and a lot more upbeat than I had been expecting - and in fact even up to the last few chapters she had convinced me that I would actually be OK with Harry dying to kill Voldemort, so she had won me over either way. I'm pleased she didn't kill him though - it shows you don't have to kill off the main character for dramatic effect! Left me feeling warm and fuzzy rather than drained and down.
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andy rooney



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:57 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

don't let jeff's distaste for off the cuff get to you. he was making his post up as he went, whereas, i'm planning this one out. Very Happy

personally, i think every single book should end the way the dark tower books ended.

who could possibly know if stephen king made things up as he went. and who could possibly know if rowling had to have everything all planned out.

jeff, you just didn't like the dark tower ending because it scared you.
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Jeff Mason



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:06 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

andy rooney wrote:


who could possibly know if stephen king made things up as he went. and who could possibly know if rowling had to have everything all planned out.

.


King has said in interviews that he had no idea how the series was going to end as late as book 4 was written.

Rowling has said in interviews that she had the whole superstructure planned from book 1.

Should I assume that the authors are lying or self-deceived?

The only thing that scares me about the ending of Dark Tower is that people would see philosophy 101 concepts as a "deep" ending or comment on reality instead of what it really was -- King having painted himself into a corner with no way out. If people see that as "profound" that would indeed scare me. Say it with me: "cop out".
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andy rooney



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:24 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

king gets pretty coy in interviews.

and i guess if you're basing a book on biblical themes, things have been all planned out for quite awhile.

i say the ending of the dark tower might have "scared" you perhaps because it's not in line with your beliefs of what the afterworld might be, whereas i can see why you'd find comfort in the superstructure of rowling's book. of course i don't know you well at all, and i'm sure you'll say i'm wrong, so...guess there was no point in me starting a flap! i think that religion is theory as much as philosophy is, so everyone needs a 101 to start with. or end with.

i liked the last potter book, by the way. both rowl and king are excellent at character development and telling a story.
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Jeff Mason



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:33 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Actually, if there was something about HP 7's ending I didn't like, it was the whole attitude toward the afterlife. It was all wrong. I overlooked it.

You must have a low opinion of me if you think that ideas opposed to mine scare me. I should show you the library I have with books by Neitschze, Marx, the Koran, et al. I am currently studying the history of Islam on my lunch breaks.

And I certainly don't think that Potter is religious. It has a lot of ideas in it I would call "wrong". But so do most non-Christian books. I can take it. I merely pointed out that there was no missing a parallel there that has to be on some level intentional. I just don't get why you continue to lump me in with the Christians who can't take objections to their world view.
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andy rooney



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:46 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

if i had a low opinion of people in general, due to my thoughts about things that i don't know anything about...i'd be in pretty bad shape! so no, i don't have a low opinion of you. or anybody. you're not having a low opinion of me now, are you? Very Happy

i must've been wrong. you can say that, i'll take it. i've been wrong lots before, and i'll be wrong lots in the future. never in the present though. "dood, you're wrong." "ok."

i just don't think that the ending of the dark tower series is supposed to leave you with anything. it may have been predictable to some. it may have been philosophy 101. it may have been the only ending that could have possibly happened. the whole philosophy 101 thing sounds pretty hoity toity. it's makes it sounds as if there is philosophy out there that isn't 101.

and i don't lump people together. let alone you. how could i lump you together with yourself? that'd be strange. lump is a strange word. lump. she's lump. i don't get it, personally. lumping. sheesh. i think you'd have to discriminate hardcore in order to lump. Rolling Eyes
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Jeff Mason



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:54 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

When I say "Philosophy 101", I refer to basic concepts that are familiar to all people who have experience as adults with the larger issues in life by their own reflections, are somewhat obvious to them, but to an 18 year old not challenged to think in high school, they see amazingly profound insights when seeing it for the first time. These people think, "wow, how deep!" whereas the rest of us go, yeah, been there, done that.

Best example I can think of which communicates it (it's a weird one):

Revenge of the Nerds 2 -- they are on the island philosophizing while on artificial stimulants, and the geeks are coming up with all of the more complex ideas. Ogre, totally out of his element, does the best he can do: "What if C-A-T really spelled "dog"?" I mean, yes, there is some depth to the idea that spelling is arbitrary, but it only goes so far and then the newness should wear off. The cyclical nature of the ending seems so pat, so much like a freshman in college in his first encounter with philosophy, so not fresh, that it ruined the DT for me.
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andy rooney



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:09 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

that's a shame about how the ending of DT got ruined for you.

but that thing about how if cat really spelled dog? that blew my mind. Shocked

i've never read a book that had a fresh ending. usually a book ends and then there's some sort of epilogue. screw that.

and it's rare to read a book that has a fresh beginning! the dark tower had a fresh beginning, and the end has been done before, it's true. but the cyclical nature of life and death isn't philosophy 101. it's necessary knowledge. things don't end. they just fade around. Very Happy

though, now i have to say (to get this back to rowling and potter) that the harry potter series didn't have a fresh beginning, or a fresh ending. i'm not saying they were rotten, i've just encountered fresher.
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Jeff Mason



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:15 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

I agree that Potter wasn't that creative. The joy was in the plot and the characters, as they were well-done. But otherwise we HAVE seen it all before. It was just so good, y'know?

And yes, the first four books of DT were wonderful and were blazing new trails. That was why the whole thing going to pieces stung so much, because an implicit promise of greatness was made by the opening.
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andy rooney



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:18 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

the truth rises to the surface! you had expectations that were not met! Very Happy

i think that if you never have expectations, you are never disappointed. that may be 101, but i don't think it's impossible to not have expectations. it just takes practice.
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Jeff Mason



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:55 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

andy rooney wrote:
the truth rises to the surface! you had expectations that were not met! Very Happy

i think that if you never have expectations, you are never disappointed. that may be 101, but i don't think it's impossible to not have expectations. it just takes practice.


Hmm.... considering this was my expectation:

Quote:
That was why the whole thing going to pieces stung so much, because an implicit promise of greatness was made by the opening.


Should I expect every book I read to suck and be pleasantly surprised when it doesn't? I can tell you I won't read 7 books in one series if the series isn't pretty good from the beginning. But King raised the quality bar high early and fell short late. If that is "having expectations," to expect a great opening to continue great, then sorry, I WILL have them.
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