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zelilgirlI1ncenu



Joined: 27 Jun 2007

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:41 pm    Post subject: Dylan thread If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

I kept it. Shall I repost?
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IanWagner



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:43 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Please, please, please do, and thank you, Dani.
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zelilgirlI1ncenu



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:45 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Its gonna take a while and the Sopranos are on in 10 minutes here. YEah I'll start eafter (NY accent) that.
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Jeff Mason



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:46 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

No rush. All we have is time.
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alan



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:26 am    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

zelilgirlI1ncenu wrote:
Its gonna take a while and the Sopranos are on in 10 minutes here. YEah I'll start eafter (NY accent) that.


God knows how long Channel 4 are going to make us in the UK wait for the last series. Damn their Eyes! (so no spoilers!)
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IanWagner



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:27 am    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Awesome avatar, Alan. Love that album.
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alan



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:53 am    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

IanWagner wrote:
Awesome avatar, Alan. Love that album.


Ah, got that one day in 1972, on the same day as I bought Who's Next and Whistle Rhymes. I don't know how I had that much money as it wasn't my birthday! That record means a lot to me. I can just look at the cover and feel good!

I lent it to a friend at school and you can still read where someone wrote on the plastic cover 'Brightmore came second' under the title. What a comedian!
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IanWagner



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:06 am    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Quote:
I lent it to a friend at school and you can still read where someone wrote on the plastic cover 'Brightmore came second' under the title. What a comedian!


Laughing

I found WCF at a yard sale in the early 80's. Pure And Easy blew my mind. Love Heartache and Sheraton Gibson too.
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alan



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:26 am    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

IanWagner wrote:
Quote:
I lent it to a friend at school and you can still read where someone wrote on the plastic cover 'Brightmore came second' under the title. What a comedian!


Laughing

I found WCF at a yard sale in the early 80's. Pure And Easy blew my mind. Love Heartache and Sheraton Gibson too.


And of course when it came out there was no available Who version. It would be another couple of years before that saw the light of day, so Pete's version is the one that still has that emotional pull for me.

I've always loved Pete's solo stuff. I managed to get the Baba albums at the time and then got hold of a copy of 'The Genius Of Pete Townshend' boot in the late 70's, which was like opening Aladdins Cave. Its astonishing how little was available then and how hard it was to find in comparison to now when almost anything is just a click away.
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IanWagner



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:28 am    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Quote:
'The Genius Of Pete Townshend' boot in the late 70's, which was like opening Aladdins Cave.


Yep, that is still a great collection. We should do a Pete's demos thread.
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alan



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:31 am    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

IanWagner wrote:
Quote:
'The Genius Of Pete Townshend' boot in the late 70's, which was like opening Aladdins Cave.


Yep, that is still a great collection. We should do a Pete's demos thread.


Yup, we should! I had thought about that a while ago (a PT solo album thread).
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IanWagner



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:36 am    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Yep, and that would also lead nicely into a proper Who thing.
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Beckner



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:38 am    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

On a big Who kick the past couple of days. Rock and roll therapy.
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wind chime



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:27 am    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Funny how the Dylan thread is sooo Townshend Surprised
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zelilgirlI1ncenu



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:31 am    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Zelilgirli1cenu

BOB DYLAN - BOB DYLAN

I am NOT a Dylanologist and as many know, I had made a pledge at the age of 15 never to listen to Bob Dylan, because at this stage he was for me one of the other dinosaurs, ah the foolishness and wisdom of youth ! Course he was a dinosaur and still is. So I watched the documentary « No Direction Home » in the interest of science and research. I went along and was saying, yeah, yeah, I can buy that. Until I heard Dylan sing something I never heard before « Masters of War ». It immediately clicked because it was a waltz. The rest is history. I had originally tried to listen to John Wesley Harding first, and then Blonde on Blonde, and all I got was agony, lol, true. Wrong for me, as I am naturally attracted to the Blues and traditional music, love a good ol’Irish ballad and Robert Johnson. Was I in for a treat or what ? So with the help of my SS friends I decided to go the chronological way. I erred from this since, but not that much, and my vagaries have helped to consolidate my love for this « first period ». I am not a person who is interested in technical details, so you wont get much of this in my reviews, you can always refer back to other sources for this.

I was interested to hear in NDH that Dylan did not feel very satisfied with the outcome of the first album, understandably because it featured only 2 of his own compositions. The overall feel of the album is more folk/blues than the « Gaelic inflected American folk » music which characterize his subsequent albums, and which you can still trace in many of his later period albums.

Punk agression in the voice, Woody Guthrie stylee. What struck me when I heard this first is how different the early Dylan voice sounds from his later work, far less nasal. Musically, this is not a highly original album, but what transpires from it is the liveliness of the voice, which can be funny, ironic, sardonic, sad. Dylan loves to tell a story and it is noticeable that even when he uses the first person, « I » the purpose of his songs is to turn the attention of the listener outwards (see Talking New York), depict a scene, make him/her observe. And as a last overal remark, I would point to the length of all songs, this is a very short album, nearly as short as a Ramones album.

So the album opens on fast song

1. You're No Good
A Jessie « Lone Cat » Fuller song (of San Francisco Blues’ reputation) circa 1950. Seemingly Fuller played coffeehouses, colleges and folk festival across the country, then took off for Europe where he says he got « more people than the Rolling Stones ». I also read that Fuller was in tune with the contemporary scene and wasnt surprised that young folksingers would come and learn from him.

In this version of Fullers song Dylan pays tribute to his harmonica work. Dylan uses the harmonica as a counterpoint to his voice work. The theme of the song is pretty standard, oooo the bad woman
« After when you had no shoes on your feet, pretty mama
After when you had no food to eat.
Now you're that kinda woman i just don't understand
You're takin' all my money an' give it to another man ».
Ya know he cant help loving her but she treats him baaaad. Poor thing.

2. Talkin' New York.
The first of the only 2 original compositions on this album. Dylan shows his talent for story telling as the song is really told rather than sung. The perfect song to listen to when reading Chronicles Vol. 1.

Soft guitar work, punctuated by the harmonica. So Bob tells us of his first New York experience in 5 verses, how he arrived in this cold, cold town and arrived in Greenwich Village (note the subtle way in which he underscores the words « Greenwich Village »). To me this song has something Chaplinesque of the Modern Times era. In a few lines Dylan depicts how fast society grabs your talent for money
« The man there said he loved my sound
He was raving about he loved my sound.
Dollar a day's worth. » ahaha.

But then it becomes more serious
« Even joined the Union and paid my dues.
Now, a very great man once said.
That some people rob you with a fountain pen »

and even more serious
« A lot of people don't have much food on their table.
But they got a lot of forks and knives. And they gotta cut something. ».

Dylan does not draw conclusions for the listerner he just observes…. You can see in these lyrics the seeds of songs that were to come in the next albums, the « social » content which was of course is one of the main characteristic of Woodie Guthrie songs, but was also ging to help dylan on the folk scene.

3. In My Time Of Dyin'
Original lyrics and music by Blind Willie Johnson, played in a very traditional bluesey way here by Dylan. What is striking here is the relentlessness of the voice and a somewhat manic guitar arrangement. This song is a prayer for redemption
« Well, meet me, Jesus, meet me,
meet me in the middle of the air.
If these wings should fail me,
Lord, won't you meet me with another pair? »

and salvation
« Lord, in my time of dyin' don't want nobody to cry.
All I want to you to do is take me when I die »

4. Man of Constant Sorrow (Trad. Arr. Dylan)
This to me is a weird song. I’m not sure whether he is coming or going, lol, aside from this, this song marks a break in the album, this is a traditional song, the guitar is being played Johnny Cash style but Dylan makes this song his by using 2 tricks, his harmonica trademark between each verse and his use of elongated vowels « Buuuuuuuuuuuuuut there’s one thing darling » « Throooooooooooooough this open world »…etc.

5. Fixin' to Die, lyrics and music by Bukka White
To me a strong point of this album. Again a song about death which echoes "In m Time of Dying". Listening to the first few bars, I hear the beginning of « The Ballad of Hollis Brown ». No harmonica on this one, just a raw voice. This song is no prayer, just a song of relyctant acceptance of one’s fate
« Well, I don't mind dyin',
but I hate to leave my children cryin'. »

6. Pretty Peggy-O (Trad. Arr. Dylan)
This song has a nursery rhyme quality of the « she’ll be coming round the mountain» kind in a weird way. There is really good article about the origins of this americanized scottish ballad on wikipedia "The Bonnie Lass o' Fyvie" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fennario. Not the greatest higlight of the album, lol.

7. Highway 51 Blues, circa 1930, lyrics and music by Curtis Jones
Curtis Jones had enjoyed a spell of success in the lte thirties but was nearly forgotten when he produced his first album in 1960. It is said that Curtis was a « highly emotive vocalist ». Now in this song about the road, Eros and Thanatos, Dylan rasps his voice over a fast guitar arrangement which compliments his voice, loud when he doesn't sing, soft when he does. I love the phrasing of « Highway Fifty Woooooone runs by my baaaaaby’s do’ ». And this song fades almost seamlessly into the next one.

8. Gospel Plow (Trad. Arr. Dylan)
« Well, I never been to heaven,
but I've been told streets up there are lined with gold.
Keep your hand on that plow, hold on ».
Yep hold on !

9. Baby, Let Me Follow You Down (Rev. G. Davis/Eric von Schmidt/ Dave Van Ronk).
Well now we know that Eric von Schmidt lived in Cambridge at that stage and is a blues guitar player after a longish spoken introduction to this song. Not much more than a pretty song, deedlee dai dee dum.

10. House of the Risin' Sun (Trad. Arr. Van Ronk)
I read about the House of the Rising Sun that « A guidebook called Offbeat New Orleans asserts that the real House of the Rising Sun was at 826–830 St. Louis St. between 1862 and 1874 and was purportedly named for its madam, Marianne LeSoleil Levant, whose surname translates to "The Rising Sun."
It is quite possible, though, that the "House of the Rising Sun" is a metaphor for either the slave pens of the plantation, the plantation house, or the plantation itself, which were the subjects and themes of many traditional blues songs. ».

But now we are talking ! What a song, or rather what an interpretation of that song ! Everyone know The Animals version of this song about sorrow and repent. To me Dylan ‘s version is way better. This is the only song on this album where there is some drumming BTW. Ian once said that in the song Dylan is so synched into the mood of the song that he becomes the prostitute.

There is a funny anecdote in NDH where Van Ronk says that really Dylan stole his arrangement of this song, and that he was repaid a while back when people thought that Dylan has stolen HOTR from The Animals. Funny.

Dylan’s sings a stripped down version of this song, very atmospheric and gripping, where his voice really suits the feeling of doom of the lyrics.

11. Freight Train Blues (Trad. Arr. Dylan)
Great harmonica arrangements on this fast sung blues.

12. Song to Woody (Dylan) –
This is the second of Dylan’s orginal compositions on this album and a tribute to a major musical influence for Dylan. This ballad heralds some his waltzy compositions. The words are indeed moving but a tad too eulogiac to my taste
« I'm singing you the song but I can't you sing enough
'Cause there's not many men that've done the things that you've done. »

13. See That My Grave Is Kept Clean (Blind Lemon Jefferson)
The title says it all. I adore this song, the way Dylan twangs his guitar at the beginning. Another song about death and a chilling one at that. The way it works is by relentless repetition of the first 3 lines of each verse, each time sung in a different tone, more and more torn each time. What an image
« You can see that my grave is kept clean.
And there's two white horses following me.
And there's two white horses following me.
I got two white horses following me,
waiting on my burying ground » !

So an uneven first album, in which Dylan announces his influences and shows that he has learnt much from the many record he stole from his friends collection.

Please add freely to this very uniformed review.

----------------------

Bugul



I like it. Great stuff.

---------------------



Ian, Yeah Right



You nailed it Daniele.
What is interesting about this one is that, as Dylan has revealed, a lot of these songs were not part of his usual repertoire, just songs he loved and recorded quickly, and never really sang again.
He characterised it brilliantly as "not wanting to give too much of himself away".
The album gives the impression of Dylan as a foremost interpreter in the grand modern folk tradition, misleading in some ways as he was already writing a score of brilliant originals. But Bob smartly and perhaps subconsciously realised how precocious it would have seemed to put an album out of mostly originals in the then mortally tradition-steeped folk scene and so decided to "pay his dues" with his first album.
You would think, since the album has no classic Dylan "standards", with the possible exception of "Follow You Down", that this album would be somewhat forgettable, and it's almost nonexistent reputation would seem to confirm that.
But it only takes one listen to recognise it as one of Dylan's most inspired creations, with not a bad track in sight. It simply flies by, and it's hurried and stark sound pegs it as pretty punk-rock, especially when measured against other contemporary folk albums.
One of the greatest debuts ever, an unfairly overlooked classic.
I'll have Freewheelin' up soon.


------------------


MoogDroog



Yay! Great review and i'm glad the thread is going now.. I'll have to pull that album out and give it another listen.

------------------



zelilgirlI1ncenu


Thanks for summing thing up so brilliantly Ian, I am really struck by the sheer brilliance of the early works.

And dont hurry too much for the next one, seeing that I am next again after that!

--------------------


Jonathan Donaldson


You know, I have never paid this album that much attention, because it sounds like what the cover looks like--a pudgy face kid putting on a railroad hat and trying to copy a bunch of records he heard at people's houses.



Contrast that with the cover of the subsequent albums

I need to pay this album more mind. GREAT comments Danielle and Ian. It is impossible to imagine that this could have been the only album he ever did. And it could have been.
JD

-----------


zelilgirlI1ncenu


Yes it would be good idea if we could post the image of the record with each review. I meant to do it and forgot! uh oh!

----------------


Jonathan Donaldson

zelilgirlI1ncenu wrote:
Yes it would be good idea if we could post the image of the record with each review. I meant to do it and forgot! uh oh!


where it's appropriate, and a lot of people may not know this, but Dylan was very image conscious, which I am sure Ian will get into deeper....So his album covers are pretty significant for that reason, more than say BB covers.

--------------------
zelilgirlI1ncenu

Indeed!

------------------


Chris D.

Great work, Daniele. I really liked reading that and your interest in Dylan has had me thinking about him more lately. I don't listen to the Dylan albums I have much, but maybe I will soon in the future. I'm looking forward to the rest of this thread and I hope you all delve deep into the lyrics.


So with the help of my SS friends

Purifying music so it all sounds like the saxon 60s??

------------------

zelilgirlI1ncenu


I know should I edit do you think?

------------------


Jonathan Donaldson

Ian, Yeah Right wrote:
One of the greatest debuts ever


how so? Don't you find that Great Debut's are usually characterized by the artist emerging fully formed? And you don't find this until Freewheelin.

Also, Dylan's debut is a weaker album than his next 7 or 8, I would guess off the top of my head.

Are you stating its greatness on the basis of how it positioned his career?

--------------------------


Chris D.

zelilgirlI1ncenu wrote:
I know should I edit do you think?


No, I think it somes up some aspects of music fandom perfectly

--------------------

Ian, Yeah Right

Jonathan Donaldson wrote:
Ian, Yeah Right wrote:
One of the greatest debuts ever

how so? Don't you find that Great Debut's are usually characterized by the artist emerging fully formed? And you
don't find this until Freewheelin.
Also, Dylan's debut is a weaker album than his next 7 or 8, I would guess off the top of my head.
Are you stating its greatness on the basis of how it positioned his career?


No, I think it is a far greater album on the whole than Freewheelin' or Another Side.
My Dylan opinions will scorch your eyes.
Get ready to deal with that.

---------------------

Jonathan Donaldson


Dylan already scorched my eyes!

Damn, you know for a while, I really cuddled up to Freewheelin, so be gentle---naw BE BRUTAL
----------------------
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Dial-Up Jonathan

Dylan already scorched my eyes!

Damn, you know for a while, I really cuddled up to Freewheelin, so be gentle---naw BE BRUTAL!


It has some of Dylan's greatest moments, but...
Soon, damnit.

----------------


hrtshpdbox


Good comments, Danielle.


Ian, Yeah Right wrote:
hrtshpdbox wrote:
How much time do I get, Ian?

Prob'ly two weeks to get there, I would think.


I think I can accelerate that a bit, but there's no way Highway 61 is going up before next Friday (so slow down and savor, guys).

---------------


Ian, Yeah Right

That's the plan, cool jerk.


-----------------
andy rooney

dylan's funny too...on the talkin' new york...

So one mornin' when the sun was warm,
I rambled out of New York town.
Pulled my cap down over my eyes
And headed out for the western skies.
So long, New York.
Howdy, East Orange.

he heads out for western skies, leaving new york and landing....across the river in east orange NJ! ha

------------------


alan brightmore

Here we go....and what a good start! I wish I had the French to say how good it was Danielle! - and of course, it makes me want to scurry off and play it again. I'd forgotten about In My Time Of Dyin - strange how Led Zeppelin would later claim to have written it....


---------------

andy rooney

dylan is funny. freight train blues.

i got the freight train bloooo HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOZ!

Oh, lawdy mama got em on the bottom of my ramblin' shoooooo HOOOO HOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOZ!!!!

i love it.

------------------


zelilgirlI1ncenu

Sorry indeed I did not emphasize the "funny side" of this album. Funny that it is at times such a funny album with so many death themes treated in it. But maybe, there is something Mexican about this...

Also it is interesting to note that, for a man not really preoccupied by Christianity at that stage, many of these songs have religious themes. I intend to talk about this some more when I talk about "St Augustine" in JWH.

--------------


Boxer Monkey

I'm still trying to figure out where "Blitzkrieg Bop" figures into all of this ...

---------------


zelilgirlI1ncenu

In my brain. Do you feel cheated?

-----------------


Lester Zombie

Well done, Daniele. I look forward to more insights as we move through the catalog.

----------------


Boxer Monkey

I feel cheated

----------------


Costly Bow

Great review Daniele, it makes want to pour a nice Pinot Noir, listen to what he did accomplish, as it's devine and bountiful, and raise my glass to what has been, and what simply now is.

--------------


zelilgirlI1ncenu

Boxer Monkey wrote:
I feel cheated

Nah, nah, The Ramones did cover My Back Pages after all.
------------------


Sir Rob

Though, of course, far from being terrible or anything like that - this is the least compelling of all Dylan's 1960s albums IMO. Certainly the one I've been least disposed to listening to down the years. It just does not grab me like the others. How anyone could think this greater than Freewheelin or Another Side of completely floors me but I'll be interested to hear the argument.

I agree roughly with what someone said earlier, to me this album sounds rather like what it is, a young middle class kid's homage to his folk blues inspirations. It reminds me a bit of all that fictional biography Dylan spun about himself concerning railroads and travelling funfairs and growing up in Gallop New Mexico. He actually did this sort of thing much better in the 1990s with 'Good As I Been To You' when he sounds old enough and experienced enough to carry the material convincingly. I don't see this as a great debut at all. I think of 'Freewheelin' as being Dylan's real debut, the album where he found his real voice or the material which allowed him to do it, and one which is truly great.

My favourite track on 'Bob Dylan' is 'Man Of Constant Sorrow'. I just like the song and the way Dylan sings it. I presume also that The Animals were inspired to record not just House of the Rising Sun but also 'Baby Let Me Follow You Down' by it's inclusion on this album. Whatever one thinks of The Animals' electric versions of those songs I can't help but think that they were an influence on Dylan's later musical direction. His own stunning electric take on BLMFYD on the 66 tour would seem to indicate that.

----------------


alan brightmore

Agree Rob, It's interesting how the whole 60's thing was so cyclical - Dylan inspires 60's beat groups, they do electric versions of his songs (and covers), he goes electric.

I also tend to think of Freewheelin' as his first - this album makes you wonder what it is that Hammond saw in him (a bit like the Hammond demos that Springsteen did - its astonishing he signed him after hearing some of those!).

I mean, gawky, 20 year old jewish kid singing classic blues and folk songs (and actually there are more Blues songs than folk on that first album)? It shouldn't work at all but even then, with other people's songs, he added something to them - even if he was just stealing it from his contempories!
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Dial-Up Jonathan


Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 40

Post Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:33 pm Reply with quote
keep the Dylan goin


Last edited by Dial-Up Jonathan on Fri Apr 21, 2006 1:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dial-Up Jonathan


This is the best I can do.
Danielle, we are missing your "Times"

and Ian's Freewheeli, Concert, and Another Side are lost unless you or anyone has success with Jeff's "Temp Internet Files" trick!
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Sir Rob


Sorry, I've been away. What the hell happened (to the Dylan thread)?!
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Dial-Up Jonathan


The board got a bit screwed up in some routine cleaning, accidentally.
So we have to rebuild the thread, in the words of one of our fine posters, DEAL WITH IT! Smile
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Jeff Mason


If anyone browses to a great degree, and keep cache low, the chances it will work may be slim. If you download lots of files, you may as well forget it. There are only two people I can think of who might be able to help -- Monkee and his old friend, who seemed to have just read the whole thread.

And I was JUST THERE! Two days ago I was on the whole FREAKING THREAD! And I keep my cache set low, to only 381 MB! And of course, the .rar downloads put paid to that notion. AAARRRGGHH! Our only true hope is that someone actually SAVED the reviews manually. But if I didn't and Ian didn't, who would?
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zelilgirlI1ncenu



WoW WoW WoW, the mwuhs my friend are blowing in the wind!
Smile Cool

Times are a-comin shortly Smile
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Dial-Up Jonathan


It might work, if everyone tries your trick.
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Maybelline

Dial-Up Jonathan wrote:
in the words of one of our fine posters, DEAL WITH IT! Smile


He is fine, indeed.
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Dial-Up Jonathan


get a room, er.....phooey! Smile

Ian, Yeah Right


Maybelline wrote:
Dial-Up Jonathan wrote:
in the words of one of our fine posters, DEAL WITH IT! Smile


He is fine, indeed.


grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

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jon

He wants to FUCKING KILL ME, but he's fine.
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Ian, Yeah Right


Haha, not at all, Jon, I don't care about my stuff! I just care about the other folks' writings. I can write my crap again any time. You rule.

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jon


*I* care about your stuff!!! Most particularly, I care about the 2nd half of the monkees thread!
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