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Blade Runner......ohmigod.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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IanWagner



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:12 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

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I can assure you that for everyone that knows about Videodrome or Brainstorm there are 25 people who know about BR.


As it should be.
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you gotta be kidding me



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:06 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

So which is it, then? It's not underrated if it's a favorite of more critics and fans than the other films mentioned.
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halleluwah



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:11 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

you gotta be kidding me wrote:
So which is it, then? It's not underrated if it's a favorite of more critics and fans than the other films mentioned.
I think it's a question of talking about whether the movie is overrated just in relation to its own merits as a film vs. whether it's overrated in comparison to other films.
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IanWagner



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:18 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

you gotta be kidding me wrote:
So which is it, then? It's not underrated if it's a favorite of more critics and fans than the other films mentioned.


Nope. If Blade Runner does not regularly make the lists of the Great films, it's underrated. Tarkovsky gets mentioned far more frequently. You can't base a film's rep on the experiences in one video store. Hell, one I worked in decided that Showgirls was the best film of all time. Which I couldn't argue with.
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Beckner



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:38 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Don't even try to act like your dominant opinion didn't sway the vote!
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Tuxedo Kiddd



Joined: 28 Jun 2007

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:18 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

" ... contains new and improved special effects ..."


NO!!!!!!!
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alan



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:06 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Tuxedo Kiddd wrote:
" ... contains new and improved special effects ..."


NO!!!!!!!


I think this just means getting rid of some of the obvious gaffs and bluescreen stuff in a 25 year old film. There will still be 3 other versions to look at with the old stuff in! Laughing
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alan



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:32 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

you gotta be kidding me wrote:
So which is it, then? It's not underrated if it's a favorite of more critics and fans than the other films mentioned.


Any film by Ridley Scott comes with a built in prejudice that critics will wheel out regardless.

Which one? Yes, 'Style over substance'. That one.

Your argument works in retrospect but not in real time. The 'early 80's commercial atmosphere' happened as a result of Blade Runner - the Apple Mac commercial that Ridley Scott did later was a direct consequence of the film. Alien was a huge hit, but Blade Runner was Scott's first Hollywood film - the other two were made in England, and no-one had really seen The Duellists. He was in no way a 'name' director - he was a one-hit wonder that had a lot to prove. Hence many of his on-set problems.

Yes, much of the design was familiar if you were into Metal Hurlant - and how many film directors were using comics talent then? Exactly.

Stalker was seen by three people and a very pissed off dog. Influence on mainstream fim-making? None. Blade Runner has had a profound effect on the look of films, TV etc ever since. Can you give me another example please of a film of that time which has had a fraction of the effect, other than perhaps his own 'Alien'? Brainstorm is forgotten for good reason - not that good a film. Videodrome is interesting but just look at the film now - it looks like it was made on Super 8. Blade Runner blew the eyeballs off me back then, and still looks better than most films made today.

Blade Runner was a flop but one that has been vindicated over the years as its quality has shone through. In either version (i'm quite happy with the voice-over one as it was the one that sent me ga-ga at the cinema) it still has the rare power to astonish and make you gasp at the screen, as I did from the start when I saw it in a London cinema whenever it was first on release in 1982 with my girlfriend who was looking forward to the new Harrison Ford film and was a bit miffed with what she got.

Yes it VERY well known and now regularly talked of as a classic, but still grudgingly - still 'Scott's triumph of style over substance'. One of these days critics will stop quoting each other on that, and will also stop calling The Searchers 'elegaic', which seems to be where that film has reached.

I've no doubt you can quote all sorts of obscure films and directors and they may well be underrated. Its not a case of 'if this is, that can't be', as mentioned by Jason above its all relative. Your original dismissal - which read as 'it's OK but nothing special' - was wrong. It is VERY special. And much more than just an SF film.

Just my opinion though...
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you gotta be kidding me



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:09 am    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

I've never actually seen Blade Runner.
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Evenreven



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:23 am    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

We've really had this discussion many times before, only on music.

There's the little-known kind of underrated, and the very different well-known kind of underrated. By that logic, you can easily make a case that, say, Bruce Springsteen's Nebraska is underrated because it's not as well-known as Born in the USA; OR, you can make the case that Born in the USA contains a lot of great songs bogged down in completely inappropriate production values and is therefore underrated by most fans. Blade Runner belongs in the latter category. Universally known, but not universally acknowledged as a great film. I blame Harrison Ford (or really, the public's perception of Harrison Ford).

(Btw, Stalker is one of my favourite films, but I don't really see the relevance of dragging Tarkovsky into this discussion. Both science fiction, sure, but completely different in most respects; I also need both.)
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Evenreven



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:25 am    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

you gotta be kidding me wrote:
I've never actually seen Blade Runner.

You should. Smile

I have no idea what this new cut will be like, but the "director's cut" from 1992 is a very, very good film, much better than the original version, imo.
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Matinee Idyll (129)



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:14 am    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

Evenreven wrote:
I blame Harrison Ford (or really, the public's perception of Harrison Ford).


The greatest single human being in the history of the universe!?!

What perception Even?
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Rob



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:45 am    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

alan wrote:


Any film by Ridley Scott comes with a built in prejudice that critics will wheel out regardless.

Which one? Yes, 'Style over substance'. That one.


That was my impression on first seeing the film and without anyone else telling me. I saw the film again some years later in the early 90s 'directors cut' - but my opinion remained unchanged (as has happened on a number of other occasions with films I haven't liked but have given another chance because everyone says they're great).


alan wrote:

Stalker was seen by three people and a very pissed off dog. Influence on mainstream fim-making? None....


That's an argument against making anything other than commercial box office cinema - and not a very good one at that. Now I think Stalker has been seen by many more people than those that you say (although admittedly not by me!) Maybe not multiplex audiences but enough people and particularly by people with a genuine interest in film as an art form amongst whom I include those who actually make films, even those engaged in making the most commercial types of cinema. So I think Stalker and all kinds of art house cinema do have an influence on film making.
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alan



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:12 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

[quote="Rob"]
alan wrote:





alan wrote:

Stalker was seen by three people and a very pissed off dog. Influence on mainstream fim-making? None....


That's an argument against making anything other than commercial box office cinema - and not a very good one at that. Now I think Stalker has been seen by many more people than those that you say (although admittedly not by me!) Maybe not multiplex audiences but enough people and particularly by people with a genuine interest in film as an art form amongst whom I include those who actually make films, even those engaged in making the most commercial types of cinema. So I think Stalker and all kinds of art house cinema do have an influence on film making.


Sorry I wasn't saying anything against Stalker as a film - I love lots of films like Stalker (though not Stalker itself) and they are very important - I just think that its influence was negligable on mainstream film. It may well have had other impacts elsewhere.
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Rob



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:33 pm    Post subject: If a post contains some illegal issues you may abuse on it - just click Abuse and fill the form Reply with quote

alan wrote:

Sorry I wasn't saying anything against Stalker as a film - I love lots of films like Stalker (though not Stalker itself) and they are very important - I just think that its influence was negligable on mainstream film. It may well have had other impacts elsewhere.


No I wasn't saying you had anything against Stalker as a film but neither have I any particular interest in defending it as a film (as I said, I haven't seen it). I just meant that plenty of people who make films, mainstream or otherwise, will have seen Stalker and may have been influenced by it.
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